Ai
One of the things I am regularly tasked to do is industry watch and subsequent technology review. I saw today that Turbine had licensed a cool new middle ware AI solution. They've got some pretty cool demos up on the site for Kynogon.When we think AI for WWIIOL we tend to think about the little gunners everywhere but there are other solutions as well. Convoys and supply come to mind but so do AI gunners for planes, seamen running around the decks of boats, automated wingmen or guards and civilians even. Where does your mind wander for AI in a game like ours? Flocks of sheep? Gas station attendants? Fully interactive French farm girls?
18 Comments:
I'll bite on farm girls
Merc88
Farm girls should be first
umm...
Just been playing NAVY.
Load a ship with four tanks? Takes an hour, no sh17.
Float ship to combat? Another hour in a freighter.
Unload? 10 minuts for four tanks. Time to battle for tanks? Another 15 minutes.
Value of tanks in Zeelands? Very very high.
Ability of KAMIKAZE Ju 87 or 110c4 bomber to fly 15 minutes and die dropping bombs 10 feet off of the deck of ship? 100%
Put the AI on the Ship's AA guns and upgun those ships. Attacking the Navy should be nuts in WWIIOL and it kills the naval game, and therefore the Zeelands game for BS like this to exist.
This should be a minimal fix that will have Naval fans loving you.
SOLUTION: Make any UNMANNED AA on ship be AI controlled and 75% deadly. 15 minutes x 75% death = 4 attempts for success = 1 hour of flying effort not including Player abilities with AA on the ships.
THAT is where the game gets more subscribers that are not being served right now - NAVY.
Next is RAILROADS supply by AI, but only if you want to be rich.
S!
Joker007
Your list already includes most of the game-important stuff.
The toughest application, I'd think, would be a security network starting two towns behind each side's lines, with combat-capable patrols, checkpoints, escorts and garrisons that incorporate automatically activated player spawn capability in the case of enemy contact; incrementally despawn in the case of sustained fighting, so that player spawn-ins would be essential; automatically respond concentrically to incursion reports; also respond per command direction by HC supply-and-security officers; and basically protect rear areas from penetration by enemy recon and raider elements.
It'd also be nice to evolve past the currently discussed simple simulation of radar-and-spotters, and implement a distributed network of physically represented AI air and coastal spotters at specific locations, and AA-and-ground-protected AI radar stations at player-selected behind-the-lines locations.
Such a spot-and-report network might also include arrays of civilian fishing trawlers, operating at semi-random locations in friendly-held waters...though of course that'd depend on adoption of operational area control as a foundation for the naval game, meshed with and partly replacing its present default tactical orientation.
Of course, if such an operational orientation were implemented, there'd also be a need for a player ability to plot and implement AI naval patrols akin to the ground rear-area security system, with player spawn-in in the event of enemy contact.
BTW..."automated wingmen" sounds pretty much parallel to "automated infantry squad members", i.e. lowest-level tactical players become squad leaders, and command a squad of NPCs...or possibly a mix of NPCs and players, i.e. a multicrewed squad.
The present game, of course, already uses a similar concept for tanks, guns, bombers and naval vessels.
Does the AI tool you're reviewing have the power to allow you to create infantry NPCs that could perform at a customer-expectations-satisfying level in a game like this one, with its relatively complex environment and interaction systems?
Not really J. And THIS game will likely never get squad commands where you control 5 NPC. We do have a design on hand that does call for it but its pretty cold.
I also don't think we really need something this sophisticated to do AI gunners on AC and Ships which would be my first priority.
I hope that if AI AA gunners are utilized on ships, it'll be part of a naval developmental path toward functionally necessary polycrewing, with players able to spawn into AA positions and take over.
"I also don't think we really need something this sophisticated to do AI gunners on AC and Ships which would be my first priority."
God love ya.
The Navy will vote you Admiral of the Fleet - and I will personally demand they make a 100% naval squad called "GOPHUR Nutz".
Just do it. :)
BAH, the last thing we want is more AI in game.
The WHOLE point of a game like this is the fact your fighting against other humans, NOT AI.
Now a good working polycrewing system is what we realy want.
As for the time it take to load transports. It takes about 15mins max to load 4 tanks, unless you don't have a clue what your're doing.
What would be nice would be the ability to allow the crew of those tank to then leave and you be able to re-join (crew) them when need at the other end of the trip, thus not forcing them to just sit on the ship for an hour doing nothing.
As for attacking ships should be realy hard, WHY?
In real life if a dive bomber got to a position above a taregt it was almost impossible to prevent them dropping (hitting is a different issue).
Given most of our pilots have lots of experience and no fear of death, nothing will prevent a determined pilot hitting his target.
Aerial bombing of significantly defended ships in the real WWII world was a time-speed-distance issue.
20-25mm AA was pretty lethal up to somewhere between 300-600 meters...more so as ships were mounted with more and faster guns, of course...so most bombers released above that height. Thus the question was, how far would the evasively maneuvering ship move during the bomb fall time, how much would it turn, and would it be where you aimed the bomb when the bomb arrived?
That's why it was rare for bombs to hit destroyers...because in the real world fall time, they would move more than their length and turn as much as 30 degrees either way.
Of course, making any of that work would require both a Fear of Death mechanism and an attrition rareness for fast aircraft that's much greater than that for slow ships. As was revealed in the real war, you can always get bomb hits if you're a kamikaze and don't care about the AA lethality level.
I think it'd be great if the naval game could evolve toward a real air-surface combat relationship, with hits being much more rare, and of course causing more damage when they occur.
Of course, if the discussion is about AI, the farm-girls idea might be OK too. 8^)
I think AI AA on Destroyers would be great. I'm axis so my pov will come from there. With the allied air quakes on DDs its really hard to do anything with the silent bombers which isnt realistic in the fact that there bombs are stored internally and shouldnt be able to release at that angle or that the carborated engines would be able to restart at thoughs speeds. But we have people who do it on both sides.
Also would be nice if you were multicrewed and the other 20mm that the person wasnt controling went ai .. or the 37s while you were on your main guns. ect.. ect..
I know that Jwilly and I have discussed this before - and I'm no expert on naval stuff - but the rate of turn off DD's (degrees per sec) has always seemed desperatly slow compared with both footage I've seen and with anecdotal evidence of the great difficulty in hitting moving ships with bombs.
If audited and found too slow, (rate or turn), then of course this would help DD's with evasions of bombs - to a point!
I think AI AAA is a reasonable idea, but have concerns with DD's parking up near airfields on the Zeelands, especially knokke and vliss.
oh i thought of 2 more things.. what about ammo.. ai shoots like crazy and misses most the time.. and what if the ea is 4k above you current ai shoots at it even if it cant see it.. and if they didnt see you before.. they do now. or the edd around the bend surely does. will there be away to turn it off or set it to only shoot at 1.5-2k? and as far as knokke and vliss.. the shore batteries would eat them or the edds would.
Yep DD turn rate always seamed a bit slow to me, but all I have to go off is what I've seen on combat footage, from both the DD's & attacking aircraft point of views.
Finding actual data might be hard.
And Vert0 makes a very valid point about AI, you would certainly want the ability to turn any AI system off.
Very simply put. We (I) want polycrewing and any position NOT filled by a player and NOT dead would be controlled by AI. It is important to state that it should be not as POTENTIALLY effective as a human. But dagnabit I sat in a farmile with a gunner for an hour and a half yesterday while a transport loaded and one bomber came over jettisoned its load and killed the transport as it was leaving the harbor.
This can't continue.
I also think adding airframe stress would deter a lot of bombers from pulling loops 80 feet off the deck while dumping bombs, which would help immensely.
Sonar
AI on vehicles should be used ONLY in big ships, from frigate and train level to above.
All the other kind of vehicles should NOT have AI.
The only reason AI is desirable in ships is because is imposible to multicrew all the fire positions in big ships like they were in real life.
ALSO, for the navy it would be desirable to have a 2D screen, like that Microprose game about the B-17, to manage your crew (for damage control, to have killable tripulations in a realistic way, etc...)
adding airframe stress (like G failure and overspeed) would help a lot of things immensly. Default AA AI which can be replaced with a human, and the ability to switch it on or off before you spawn in. Prolly two most beneficial things I can think of.
- Wassenar
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